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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number

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732 for the 16th of October 2022 Richard

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Saunders coming to you from Sydney

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Australia where the weather is let me

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look out the window oh wow Sunny blue

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skies sunny day it's a good thing it's a

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very good thing because there's been a

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lot of rain around lately especially for

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my dear friends in Victoria and

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Melbourne especially which suffered

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terrible floods over the last few days

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in fact our reporter down in Melbourne

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Michelle bigesma tells me that uh

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with photographs that there was Major

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flooding right behind her school right

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behind her school where she teaches it

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looked um dramatic

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and it's still going on so our thoughts

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are certainly with our dear friends in

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Melbourne

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but what's coming up on the skeptic Zone

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this week I catch up with my old friend

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Brian Dunning from the skeptoid podcast

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and Brian's going to bring us up to date

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on his movie Project the UFO movie

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they don't want you to see

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Ryan will discuss the process of making

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this movie and the ups and downs the ups

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and downs of making any documentary I

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guess I'm very much looking forward to

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this documentary I've contributed I've

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supported the movie but find out more

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about this whole process and what it is

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all about coming up at the top of the

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show

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following that in the Trove segment

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keeping with the UFO theme we look at

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The Disappearance of pilot Frederick

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valentich 20 year old pilot who

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disappeared over Bass Strait

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which is the uh the body of water

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between the Australian Mainland and this

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the Island state of Tasmania in 1978 he

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disappeared but he reported just before

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he disappeared he reported seeing what

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many people believe to this day was an

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alien spaceship

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we looked to the

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the newspaper records of the time to

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find out more about the Frederick

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valentich case

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then to round off the show I chat to

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girana bhutanjai and Tom Carruthers from

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the Australian science communicators and

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this is the peak body for science

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communication and science journalists in

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Australia

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very important to be able to communicate

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science now later today as I record

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later today I hope to be making my way

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downtown in Sydney to once again visit

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the Festival of Mind Body Spirit oh it's

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back again yes Mind Body wallet back

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again

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who knows what I'll discover this time

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs have a look in the fridge any

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leftover ravioli I wonder

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hmm while I investigate that I hope you

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foreign

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[Music]

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music can mean only one thing we're

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going to be discussing

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UFOs with a man who's been interested as

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I have been in the UFOs probably since

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the 1970s all the way from the beautiful

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city of Bend in Oregon it's the host of

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skeptoid Brian Dunning hello Brian hello

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Richard

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UFOs Brian you have what is it come on

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now what is it about people men of a

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certain age I don't want to say that but

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people of a certain era and others of

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course

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um we still have this Fascination don't

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we well I mean I I wouldn't say that I

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have a fair I did when I was a kid yeah

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uh you know I was as I've said many

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times my bookshelf was all uh ghost

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books and Bigfoot books and UFO books uh

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and I believed every word of everything

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in all those books uh but but since then

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especially in the last God 16 years

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since I've been doing skeptoid uh I

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would say my my fascination with any of

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those topics has has turned to jaded uh

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acceptance

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I hear you and I know exactly what you

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mean but you're right you're right that

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there's a lot of there's a lot of

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interest in it though um there still is

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here well here in the U.S they're

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talking about it in in Congress yeah uh

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they're making official government

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committees about UFOs and my gosh if you

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get into any of the UFO forums or the

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the Twitter communities uh it's it's

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it's unbelievable how much interest and

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how much passion there is uh a huge

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number of people seem to be well in fact

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40 percent of Americans according to a

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recent poll 40 percent of Americans

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believe that the Earth is actively

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visited by aliens that's that's a huge

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number and of those people who are

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active in these online communities some

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of them are extremely passionate well I

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I I hear you and I get this

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um I use we see it in other Realms

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especially in the conspiracy theory

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people who get extremely passionate

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about their particular conspiracy theory

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yeah dare we say so passionate that

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they're willing to storm the the Capitol

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building in the United States right

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yeah I mean that's that's uh that's one

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example of it I haven't seen the UFO

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people storming any buildings yet but

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but I'm not kidding I have seen people

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talking about it because they believe

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that the government is suppressing all

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this information and they they always

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set um deadlines for when they believe

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disclosure is coming it's just like the

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people who talk about you know the

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Rapture is going to be September 15th of

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next year whenever it is there's always

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some date for it and for the end of the

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world and for UFO disclosure they always

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believe it happens the dates always come

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and go and nothing interesting happens

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which uh which is interesting because a

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year ago I suppose I wrote an article

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for the skeptic magazine here in

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Australia called any day now which

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outlined the fact that uh Cults

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religious cults and others from for

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centuries have said any day now X will

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happen any day now this God will appear

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any day now the government will disclose

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the fact that UFOs are visiting the

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Earth and of course the any day never

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never eventuates right

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but anyway what will eventuate folks and

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the reason I'm chatting to Brian today

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is to catch up with you Brian about the

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movie project that I've been following

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for some time now

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and this is your UFO movie called the

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UFO movie they they don't want you to

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see now when I visited you earlier in

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the year uh we we visited a local

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Observatory and we filmed your uh uh I

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don't want to say Kickstarter your promo

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your your here we go folks here there is

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basically a crowdfunding video

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crowdfunding that's what the movie is

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going to be about and uh it was an

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Indiegogo campaign right right um it was

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enough to enough to get me started

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anyway so we filmed that and you added

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that together into a national promo put

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it out there

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and ever since then ever since I saw you

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last you've been concentrating uh much

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of your time on this project how about

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an update an update for the aliens and

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the listeners out there yep yep so well

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for anyone who wants ongoing updates

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um because the movie is about halfway

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through with production right now and

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it's

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um you can just go to briandunning.com

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UFO

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um and then there's a little place you

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can sign up for email spams that you can

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unsubscribe from but I got a little blog

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on there with pictures of the production

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and what's going on and everything it's

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been a lot of travel I started off going

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to Washington DC I was down in Folsom

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California Rancho Cordova California

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Southern River Oregon I went back and

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shot something at that same Observatory

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where you and I were right and then

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let's see

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um next I'm going well of course we got

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cycon coming up this week as soon as

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that's done then I'm going to Texas

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Fort Davis Texas where there's an

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observatory

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um Plains Georgia home of Jimmy Carter

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who saw a UFO once oh yes uh Woodstock

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Georgia and then uh probably Madras

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Oregon and possibly Wyoming

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and that should cover all of the

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location stuff the rest of it is all

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being done here locally there's some

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studio stuff and uh and some stuff in

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the local Hills I've been to Madras

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Oregon uh what is that a known spot for

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UFOs no no it's a it's a place where

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there's an air museum which I'm in a

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place that I might use as a set for some

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interviews because because apart from

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the Sun River Observatory you and I

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actually attempted to film at another

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Observatory which was a fabulous little

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outing for us we jumped in the car and

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we drove some hours up into the hills

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and we had a beautiful afternoon

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visiting another Observatory but it

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turned out we the Pine Mountain

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Observatory yes but it turned out we

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couldn't use that footage after all but

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I don't care because it was such a an

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interesting trip so you've you've been

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traveling I've been meeting people who

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are uh astrophysicists people who are in

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the military people who are in defense

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uh people who are in uh air traffic

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control air crash invest instigation a

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bunch of people like that

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and they're all very level-headed

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grounded individuals with a lot of

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really good information so I I think I'd

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be giving the wrong impression to say

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I'm meeting some colorful interesting

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characters

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well that makes quite a change from your

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average UFO documentary I think right

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there well I think it does for sure yeah

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I was I was super hesitant to go with

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the title

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um the UFO movie they don't want you to

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see you know it was

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when you when you're when you're trying

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to come up with a title for the movie I

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mean first of all something like this a

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billion UFO movies have been made yeah

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almost all credulous yeah you know low

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budget things and they've used every

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conceivable title that has the word UFO

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or Flying Saucer in it or anything and I

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wanted to come up with something that

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was unique but also something that grabs

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attention yeah and so we I had like I

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don't know maybe around 20 titles and I

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did a whole bunch of like workshopping

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and surveying people and people were

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voting on them and this one was the

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standout winner and even though I felt

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that it was it sounded kind of silly and

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kind of like it might be a conspiracy

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theory movie

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um it's also fun it gets attention and

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it has the word UFO in it which is

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important

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so so I've the title's really grown on

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me now folks

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um apart from uh me being a very willing

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assistant to Brian a few months ago when

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00:11:45,650 --> 00:11:43,560
we filmed the little promo I've actually

278
00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:45,660
um put my money where my mouth is and

279
00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:47,820
I've donated I've well I don't think

280
00:11:52,730 --> 00:11:49,800
donating is the right word Brian I've

281
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:52,740
contributed I'm I'm I've supported I'm a

282
00:11:58,550 --> 00:11:55,680
supporter yes of the project and yes you

283
00:12:00,110 --> 00:11:58,560
are which entitles me to get my name in

284
00:12:01,730 --> 00:12:00,120
the credits so I'm looking forward to

285
00:12:04,430 --> 00:12:01,740
watching the movie just to see my name

286
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:04,440
in the credits but but you mentioned all

287
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:06,240
the travel you've obviously had some

288
00:12:10,970 --> 00:12:08,880
expenses you've bought some gear and

289
00:12:12,290 --> 00:12:10,980
this is really due to the fact that

290
00:12:14,509 --> 00:12:12,300
there are people out there all around

291
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:14,519
the world who have supported this

292
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:18,240
endeavor yeah it's um the the budget is

293
00:12:22,910 --> 00:12:20,399
going to be it's it was it was projected

294
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:22,920
at seventy thousand uh it's gonna land

295
00:12:27,650 --> 00:12:25,920
right right at about 70 000 maybe a

296
00:12:30,410 --> 00:12:27,660
little bit under I don't think it's

297
00:12:34,190 --> 00:12:30,420
going to go over and I've raised most of

298
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:34,200
that about 50 55 I believe

299
00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:37,680
so the the pain points

300
00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:39,180
um are

301
00:12:43,850 --> 00:12:42,600
um the color the sound and the scoring

302
00:12:46,670 --> 00:12:43,860
um all of which are going to get done

303
00:12:47,870 --> 00:12:46,680
it's just going to be a matter of am I

304
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:47,880
going to be able to pay something close

305
00:12:53,329 --> 00:12:50,639
to a market rate and get yeah get decent

306
00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:53,339
quality people don't realize that uh

307
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:55,980
having an actual Post House go through

308
00:13:01,069 --> 00:12:58,320
and do the color properly

309
00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:01,079
um having actual audio Engineers fix the

310
00:13:05,210 --> 00:13:03,420
sound and make it sound good and then of

311
00:13:07,490 --> 00:13:05,220
course uh scoring of the movie people

312
00:13:10,190 --> 00:13:07,500
really don't realize how much that adds

313
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:10,200
it really does

314
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:13,440
um take take it from um

315
00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:15,120
from some anything that you might just

316
00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:16,860
watch on YouTube or something to the

317
00:13:21,889 --> 00:13:18,959
really professional presentation of

318
00:13:24,530 --> 00:13:21,899
something that's on a high quality TV

319
00:13:26,090 --> 00:13:24,540
streaming channel for example and uh

320
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,100
this movie is intended to be up there

321
00:13:30,410 --> 00:13:28,079
with the with the good stuff so I want

322
00:13:32,030 --> 00:13:30,420
it to be as good as it can be so there's

323
00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:32,040
still absolutely

324
00:13:37,009 --> 00:13:35,100
um options to contribute we still have

325
00:13:38,930 --> 00:13:37,019
special thanks credits associate

326
00:13:40,910 --> 00:13:38,940
producer executive producer credits that

327
00:13:42,410 --> 00:13:40,920
are available there are limited numbers

328
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:42,420
of those because you can't make it look

329
00:13:46,129 --> 00:13:44,160
like you know fake credits or anything

330
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:46,139
like that but that's you know that's

331
00:13:49,069 --> 00:13:47,519
basically what producers do these days

332
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:49,079
is they come up with the money for a

333
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:51,120
film so that's exactly what what we're

334
00:13:56,449 --> 00:13:52,560
doing so if you want to help be a

335
00:13:57,710 --> 00:13:56,459
producer of the UFO movie they don't

336
00:14:01,910 --> 00:13:57,720
want you to see

337
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:01,920
come to uh briandunning.com UFO there

338
00:14:04,610 --> 00:14:03,600
you uh listeners to the skeptic Zone if

339
00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:04,620
you want to be part of this very

340
00:14:10,129 --> 00:14:07,200
interesting project by Brian Dunning and

341
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:10,139
if you uh like me you have a fondness a

342
00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:13,680
Nostalgia for UFOs uh that's the place

343
00:14:18,530 --> 00:14:16,260
to go to you can still be a supporter

344
00:14:20,210 --> 00:14:18,540
now Brian uh coming up on this episode

345
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:20,220
of the skeptic Zone in fact right after

346
00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:23,760
this interview I'm going to discuss the

347
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:27,120
uh Frederick valentich UFO mystery that

348
00:14:32,810 --> 00:14:30,000
poor Young Who disappeared in 1978 over

349
00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:32,820
the bass straight here in Australia and

350
00:14:37,310 --> 00:14:34,980
I reference skeptoid because you did a

351
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:37,320
whole episode on Frederick valentich how

352
00:14:45,410 --> 00:14:42,480
often over the years do do UFOs occur in

353
00:14:47,810 --> 00:14:45,420
your skeptoid journey oh several a year

354
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:47,820
uh I I've just got one did it just come

355
00:14:51,889 --> 00:14:49,680
out yeah I think it just came out either

356
00:14:54,350 --> 00:14:51,899
this week or the week before on a famous

357
00:14:58,730 --> 00:14:54,360
Brazilian case it's called the uh

358
00:15:00,410 --> 00:14:58,740
Virginia UFO uh which uh someone tipped

359
00:15:02,689 --> 00:15:00,420
me that there was a documentary coming

360
00:15:04,250 --> 00:15:02,699
out and I've been able to do this

361
00:15:06,350 --> 00:15:04,260
several times I've been able to scoop

362
00:15:08,030 --> 00:15:06,360
the documentary by getting a factual

363
00:15:09,949 --> 00:15:08,040
episode that tells what actually

364
00:15:12,110 --> 00:15:09,959
happened so people have that as a

365
00:15:15,230 --> 00:15:12,120
resource by the time the the TV show

366
00:15:17,449 --> 00:15:15,240
drops in fact Maynard I believe it was

367
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:17,459
Maynard who tipped me off years and

368
00:15:26,689 --> 00:15:22,160
years ago to a documentary about the um

369
00:15:29,629 --> 00:15:26,699
oh gosh the West westel westel UFO in

370
00:15:31,790 --> 00:15:29,639
Melbourne in the 1960s where a group of

371
00:15:33,650 --> 00:15:31,800
many school children apparently

372
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,660
witnessed an alien craft Landing or

373
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:35,279
hovering or something yes I remember you

374
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:37,440
did an episode about that yes yes indeed

375
00:15:40,189 --> 00:15:38,880
yeah so we were able to scoop that

376
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:40,199
documentary as well

377
00:15:43,370 --> 00:15:42,000
uh which was great and that was some

378
00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:43,380
fascinating stuff there were some really

379
00:15:48,110 --> 00:15:45,720
neat stuff involved in in that one yes I

380
00:15:49,790 --> 00:15:48,120
remember that episode well because folks

381
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:49,800
yes every week I make sure I listen to

382
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:52,800
skeptoid and I think the conclusion you

383
00:15:58,250 --> 00:15:55,680
you arrived at was it's quite possible

384
00:16:01,790 --> 00:15:58,260
that the the school children saw a

385
00:16:03,769 --> 00:16:01,800
military drogue or some exercises or

386
00:16:07,550 --> 00:16:03,779
military exercises taking place that day

387
00:16:09,889 --> 00:16:07,560
yeah it was a a drogue not a not a drone

388
00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:09,899
it was literally like a wind sock that

389
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:12,360
is towed behind a small plane and other

390
00:16:18,050 --> 00:16:14,760
student pilots in small planes try to

391
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:18,060
follow it as closely as they can and

392
00:16:25,069 --> 00:16:20,760
this is this is this was actually going

393
00:16:32,410 --> 00:16:25,079
on at a um was it a was it a royal Air

394
00:16:36,769 --> 00:16:35,269
are they double if thank you yes

395
00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:36,779
um there was a location right near the

396
00:16:39,949 --> 00:16:38,040
school where that was apparently

397
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:39,959
happening at the time and there was

398
00:16:45,290 --> 00:16:41,519
another part of the sighting where there

399
00:16:47,629 --> 00:16:45,300
was something seen floating along and

400
00:16:50,689 --> 00:16:47,639
um other researchers before me long ago

401
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:50,699
had had tracked that down to a specific

402
00:16:53,629 --> 00:16:52,320
weather balloon that was known to have

403
00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:53,639
been launched and was known to have

404
00:16:58,189 --> 00:16:55,860
followed that exact course

405
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:58,199
so really it was it yeah that was a that

406
00:17:04,189 --> 00:17:01,440
was a very neatly solved uh by by other

407
00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:04,199
people long before me and of course even

408
00:17:07,789 --> 00:17:05,600
to this day there are still

409
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:07,799
documentaries and the odd special come

410
00:17:12,350 --> 00:17:10,319
on TV about that very incident and uh

411
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:12,360
you will never convince the True

412
00:17:17,929 --> 00:17:15,360
Believers of of any other Theory apart

413
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:17,939
from it was a an alien spaceship

414
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:19,919
visiting the planet Earth yeah you know

415
00:17:25,370 --> 00:17:21,839
it's it's that whole part of convincing

416
00:17:28,850 --> 00:17:25,380
that is that is so important to do like

417
00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:28,860
with with my UFO movie

418
00:17:35,210 --> 00:17:33,540
um at briandunning.com UFO uh I'm not

419
00:17:37,549 --> 00:17:35,220
preaching to the choir right because

420
00:17:39,409 --> 00:17:37,559
preaching to the choir although that may

421
00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:39,419
please people who are you know

422
00:17:43,370 --> 00:17:40,980
contributing donors to the project or

423
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:43,380
whatever preaching to the choir does not

424
00:17:47,330 --> 00:17:45,840
accomplish anything at all it's really a

425
00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:47,340
complete waste of time and money and

426
00:17:51,650 --> 00:17:50,220
resources you're only doing some good if

427
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:51,660
you're reaching the people who need to

428
00:17:56,570 --> 00:17:54,000
be reached and convincing the people who

429
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:56,580
need to be convinced and getting them to

430
00:18:00,770 --> 00:17:59,280
start admitting A science-based View to

431
00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:00,780
start informing their beliefs a little

432
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:02,820
bit so that's what I'm doing with this

433
00:18:07,370 --> 00:18:05,039
it's not that's why it's not a debunking

434
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:07,380
film also it's a science presentation

435
00:18:12,650 --> 00:18:09,840
that starts off on very hopeful notes

436
00:18:16,010 --> 00:18:12,660
yes we know that there is a lot of life

437
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:16,020
in the universe uh or it's at least the

438
00:18:21,710 --> 00:18:19,320
overwhelming consensus yes yes we know

439
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:21,720
that there is almost certainly a

440
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:24,480
technological civilizations out there we

441
00:18:30,169 --> 00:18:27,600
know that uh from from exoplanet studies

442
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:30,179
that we're just starting to do we know

443
00:18:35,950 --> 00:18:33,360
that the Earth's spectrum is about as

444
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:35,960
attractive a spectrum as is imaginable

445
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:40,160
for some hypothetical alien

446
00:18:43,850 --> 00:18:42,000
astrobiologists who are out there who

447
00:18:45,049 --> 00:18:43,860
are looking through their telescopes and

448
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:45,059
looking for an interesting Planet

449
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:46,620
they're going to see Earth and they're

450
00:18:51,950 --> 00:18:49,919
going to go wow that planet has got to

451
00:18:53,570 --> 00:18:51,960
have life because you've got all the

452
00:18:55,610 --> 00:18:53,580
water in our Spectrum you've got the

453
00:18:56,750 --> 00:18:55,620
chlorophyll on our Spectrum those are

454
00:18:59,390 --> 00:18:56,760
really important

455
00:19:01,730 --> 00:18:59,400
and so that's a very hopeful note to

456
00:19:04,370 --> 00:19:01,740
open on and that's all absolutely true

457
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:04,380
and absolutely science based yes now

458
00:19:08,690 --> 00:19:06,240
there are real problems of course

459
00:19:10,850 --> 00:19:08,700
associated with long-distance space

460
00:19:12,289 --> 00:19:10,860
travel faster than light travel the

461
00:19:15,169 --> 00:19:12,299
amount of time it would take to get

462
00:19:17,210 --> 00:19:15,179
somewhere and so through the course of

463
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,220
this by we end up on talking about

464
00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:19,919
here's the way that we will be in touch

465
00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:23,640
with alien civilizations wow so it's

466
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:26,760
it's going to be completely 100 solid

467
00:19:32,210 --> 00:19:29,280
science and it's not going to

468
00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:32,220
uh it's not going to debunk it's not

469
00:19:37,370 --> 00:19:34,799
going to be credulous

470
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:37,380
it's not going to de-educate anyone the

471
00:19:40,850 --> 00:19:39,120
way that most of these documentaries are

472
00:19:43,010 --> 00:19:40,860
intended to do I think it's going to be

473
00:19:44,750 --> 00:19:43,020
a very worthwhile project I'm I'm really

474
00:19:47,210 --> 00:19:44,760
proud to be doing it wow that's

475
00:19:48,890 --> 00:19:47,220
certainly wetting my appetite Brian and

476
00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:48,900
before I go

477
00:19:54,169 --> 00:19:52,260
moment just telling telling our

478
00:19:56,210 --> 00:19:54,179
listeners about the pits and the perils

479
00:19:58,370 --> 00:19:56,220
and the and the and the traps and the

480
00:20:01,490 --> 00:19:58,380
bits and pieces about documentary

481
00:20:04,190 --> 00:20:01,500
filmmaking I noticed uh oh some time ago

482
00:20:07,970 --> 00:20:04,200
you posted something up on on uh

483
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:07,980
Facebook about the woes of the pal

484
00:20:14,270 --> 00:20:12,000
system versus the ntsc system now the

485
00:20:16,909 --> 00:20:14,280
pal system is used in televisions in

486
00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:16,919
Europe Australia much of the world and

487
00:20:21,650 --> 00:20:19,140
of course the ntsc system is used in

488
00:20:25,070 --> 00:20:21,660
North America but the you discovered

489
00:20:28,010 --> 00:20:25,080
this the hard way I think I did yes

490
00:20:30,169 --> 00:20:28,020
so I'm using there's three cameras and

491
00:20:32,450 --> 00:20:30,179
I'm doing most of the production on most

492
00:20:34,130 --> 00:20:32,460
of these setups myself if I'm going

493
00:20:36,110 --> 00:20:34,140
somewhere to just interview one person

494
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:36,120
I'm going to spend about 90 minutes

495
00:20:39,169 --> 00:20:37,919
setting up all the lights setting up all

496
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:39,179
the cameras the microphones and

497
00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:41,520
everything uh and then we do the

498
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,260
interview which takes five minutes and

499
00:20:47,390 --> 00:20:45,360
then yeah yeah an hour cleaning

500
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:47,400
everything up again so it's a three

501
00:20:54,350 --> 00:20:50,640
camera it's a three camera shoot and uh

502
00:20:56,289 --> 00:20:54,360
I had one camera and I ordered two more

503
00:20:58,669 --> 00:20:56,299
of the exact same identical camera

504
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:58,679
numbered them one two and three got all

505
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:00,000
the chips and all the batteries and

506
00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:04,200
everything and was sitting down I like

507
00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:07,260
to leave myself one task to do in the

508
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:09,360
hotel room the night before the shoot

509
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:12,480
because just you know so I so I have

510
00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:14,400
something to occupy myself with and so I

511
00:21:17,450 --> 00:21:16,020
don't have to cram quite so hard and

512
00:21:19,610 --> 00:21:17,460
what I decided to leave is the last

513
00:21:21,289 --> 00:21:19,620
minute thing was configuring the cameras

514
00:21:23,570 --> 00:21:21,299
because you got to go through the menus

515
00:21:25,730 --> 00:21:23,580
and there's a lot of settings and

516
00:21:27,289 --> 00:21:25,740
everything and in doing so I very

517
00:21:30,350 --> 00:21:27,299
quickly learned that these were pal

518
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:30,360
cameras not in TSC the problem with that

519
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:32,880
is they only shot 25 frames per second

520
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:35,280
this is all being shot in 30 frames per

521
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:36,480
second because it's going to go to

522
00:21:41,149 --> 00:21:39,120
streaming services and that is an

523
00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:41,159
enormous disaster that's an enormous

524
00:21:47,149 --> 00:21:43,679
disaster there's no way around it you

525
00:21:49,310 --> 00:21:47,159
can't take that 25 frame footage and get

526
00:21:51,289 --> 00:21:49,320
acceptable professional quality results

527
00:21:55,310 --> 00:21:51,299
from it if they have to be converted to

528
00:21:57,529 --> 00:21:55,320
30. so I mean I was just this is now 11

529
00:21:59,390 --> 00:21:57,539
12 o'clock at night in the hotel and

530
00:22:00,110 --> 00:21:59,400
we're shooting at like nine in the

531
00:22:02,810 --> 00:22:00,120
morning

532
00:22:05,330 --> 00:22:02,820
so first of all I looked to see if there

533
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:05,340
were any cameras available uh at any

534
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:06,960
retail stores that I could just go to

535
00:22:11,450 --> 00:22:09,360
first thing delay the shoot a couple

536
00:22:13,250 --> 00:22:11,460
hours if necessary I didn't care if it

537
00:22:16,010 --> 00:22:13,260
was 100 miles away I'd get there and

538
00:22:17,570 --> 00:22:16,020
back and no there were not I was it was

539
00:22:21,049 --> 00:22:17,580
not possible to buy any more cameras

540
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:21,059
around so I found on the internet that

541
00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:25,440
um you could uh there was a a firmware

542
00:22:30,770 --> 00:22:28,440
hack to convert these cameras from pal

543
00:22:32,990 --> 00:22:30,780
to ntsc well to do that firmware hack

544
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:33,000
you need a Windows PC and a USB

545
00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:34,799
interface and internet connection and

546
00:22:39,169 --> 00:22:37,260
all this stuff well I didn't have any of

547
00:22:43,490 --> 00:22:39,179
those things at this hotel I only travel

548
00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:43,500
with my iPad and um the hotel had I

549
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:45,240
won't go into this whole thing it was an

550
00:22:49,850 --> 00:22:48,000
incredible Comedy of Errors it started

551
00:22:51,110 --> 00:22:49,860
with me calling the hotel front desk and

552
00:22:53,690 --> 00:22:51,120
saying hey is there any chance you guys

553
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:53,700
have a business center with a Windows PC

554
00:22:58,430 --> 00:22:56,000
and he says let me go check

555
00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:58,440
he shouldn't he know that but he comes

556
00:23:02,510 --> 00:23:00,240
back and says no it's not Windows or

557
00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:02,520
Macs they're just regular computers uh

558
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:04,260
what so

559
00:23:09,529 --> 00:23:06,720
so I knew that he was not going to be a

560
00:23:11,630 --> 00:23:09,539
great Tech supporter resource for me but

561
00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:11,640
to make a very long story short I did

562
00:23:15,890 --> 00:23:14,460
get the firmware hack applied very early

563
00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:15,900
the next morning

564
00:23:19,789 --> 00:23:17,700
but there were so many other things

565
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:19,799
wrong that it was just a crazy crazy

566
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:20,880
night

567
00:23:25,490 --> 00:23:23,760
and um and I'm continuing to use those

568
00:23:27,169 --> 00:23:25,500
same two cameras because I still haven't

569
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:27,179
been able to get any replacements for

570
00:23:32,450 --> 00:23:30,559
them but but you successfully

571
00:23:35,570 --> 00:23:32,460
applied the firmware and now they're

572
00:23:37,549 --> 00:23:35,580
shooting in in ntsc yep yeah wow how

573
00:23:39,169 --> 00:23:37,559
about that apparently there's no actual

574
00:23:41,149 --> 00:23:39,179
Hardware difference in the cameras it's

575
00:23:42,590 --> 00:23:41,159
all just uh firmware I'm glad you were

576
00:23:45,130 --> 00:23:42,600
able to do that because I read your

577
00:23:48,169 --> 00:23:45,140
message and I thought oh no poor Brian

578
00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:48,179
that was just that was so strong and so

579
00:23:52,909 --> 00:23:50,100
I'm no longer leaving things like that

580
00:23:56,210 --> 00:23:52,919
as my last minute task just to occupy

581
00:23:59,450 --> 00:23:56,220
myself for fun in the hotel

582
00:24:01,370 --> 00:23:59,460
the Wonders the the magic folks of Show

583
00:24:03,890 --> 00:24:01,380
Business and video production is just

584
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:03,900
never ending okay I am going to link

585
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:07,679
folks to uh those URLs Brian mentioned

586
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:09,600
where you can find out more about the

587
00:24:13,789 --> 00:24:12,000
UFO movie they don't want you to see and

588
00:24:16,430 --> 00:24:13,799
uh you can still be a supporter which is

589
00:24:19,610 --> 00:24:16,440
very important and I will link to the

590
00:24:22,430 --> 00:24:19,620
episode of the West Hall 66 UFO case bro

591
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:22,440
I'm the one covered in uh skeptoid and

592
00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:24,960
also the Frederick valentich case

593
00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:26,880
because we're just about to discuss this

594
00:24:31,010 --> 00:24:29,340
very case uh coming up in the Trove

595
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:31,020
segment on the skeptic Zone Brian good

596
00:24:36,289 --> 00:24:33,360
to catch up with you uh congratulations

597
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:36,299
on lots of happy family news lately ups

598
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:39,600
and downs but um yeah life life goes on

599
00:24:43,370 --> 00:24:41,760
for sure but for now Brian Dunning all

600
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:43,380
the way there in Bend in Oregon thank

601
00:24:47,090 --> 00:24:45,120
you very much thank you very much it's

602
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:47,100
always always lots of fun to talk with

603
00:24:51,410 --> 00:24:48,720
you

604
00:25:02,230 --> 00:24:51,420
foreign

605
00:25:06,590 --> 00:25:04,370
did you know that you can listen to the

606
00:25:13,010 --> 00:25:06,600
skeptic Zone on YouTube yes I know

607
00:25:18,049 --> 00:25:15,590
also you can hear 40 logical fallacies

608
00:25:19,549 --> 00:25:18,059
with Michelle bigasma and funny sketches

609
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:19,559
with Richard Saunders and a host of

610
00:25:33,870 --> 00:25:24,649
just click on the YouTube links on the

611
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:45,890
[Music]

612
00:25:50,289 --> 00:25:48,110
now it's time once again to dive into

613
00:25:52,669 --> 00:25:50,299
those archives at Trove at

614
00:25:54,049 --> 00:25:52,679
trove.nla.gov dot a u the online

615
00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:54,059
resource from the Australian government

616
00:25:58,990 --> 00:25:55,980
and the National Library of Australia

617
00:26:01,610 --> 00:25:59,000
thank you to those people for collecting

618
00:26:03,769 --> 00:26:01,620
and Publishing online digitized

619
00:26:06,890 --> 00:26:03,779
newspapers articles gazettes journals

620
00:26:10,190 --> 00:26:06,900
going back many many decades

621
00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:10,200
and it might interest you to know that

622
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,039
since I started this segment on the show

623
00:26:18,490 --> 00:26:15,840
subjects covered have been and you can

624
00:26:20,510 --> 00:26:18,500
look these up if you go to

625
00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:20,520
skepticzone.tv and click the episodes

626
00:26:23,810 --> 00:26:21,900
link

627
00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:23,820
at the top of the next page you'll see a

628
00:26:27,169 --> 00:26:25,440
search box and you can put in any of

629
00:26:30,049 --> 00:26:27,179
these searches and find the episode in

630
00:26:31,690 --> 00:26:30,059
question the topics we've looked at have

631
00:26:35,149 --> 00:26:31,700
included

632
00:26:38,570 --> 00:26:35,159
the Ben spoon award Clairvoyance yowie

633
00:26:41,810 --> 00:26:38,580
hunts UFOs Ouija boards haunted houses

634
00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:41,820
quackery ESP the Loch Ness monster James

635
00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:44,360
Randy water divining Yuri gella

636
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:45,919
astrology

637
00:26:51,769 --> 00:26:49,039
I might repeat some things here

638
00:26:54,409 --> 00:26:51,779
biorhythms Carl Sagan Harry Houdini

639
00:26:57,049 --> 00:26:54,419
superstitions debunking telekinesis

640
00:27:00,350 --> 00:26:57,059
Poltergeist the national Center for

641
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:00,360
Science Education alien abductions the

642
00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:02,640
Scopes Monkey Trial the new age the full

643
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:05,580
moon the occult the Flat Earth Jack the

644
00:27:13,730 --> 00:27:08,400
Ripper witchcraft paranormal research

645
00:27:17,330 --> 00:27:13,740
the 1919 flu palm reading evil curses

646
00:27:21,769 --> 00:27:17,340
aliens and UFOs Halloween acupuncture

647
00:27:23,930 --> 00:27:21,779
Reiki Homeopathy seances organ energy

648
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:23,940
cancer quacks crop circles remote

649
00:27:30,909 --> 00:27:27,679
viewing curling photography numerology

650
00:27:34,330 --> 00:27:30,919
Unsolved Mysteries psychic detectives

651
00:27:37,870 --> 00:27:34,340
reflexology psychic scams

652
00:27:41,409 --> 00:27:37,880
astrology again alien abductions again

653
00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:41,419
Pyramid Power Ray Hyman Min lights

654
00:27:46,690 --> 00:27:44,960
Bermuda Triangle the Zodiac telepathy

655
00:27:51,049 --> 00:27:46,700
ESP

656
00:27:55,250 --> 00:27:51,059
cabrina Kincaid ghosts in Canada psychic

657
00:27:57,950 --> 00:27:55,260
surgery and more but today

658
00:28:02,169 --> 00:27:57,960
today we're going to look at a

659
00:28:09,130 --> 00:28:02,179
street from 1978 here in Australia

660
00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:11,870
this is The Disappearance of pilot

661
00:28:18,049 --> 00:28:14,520
Frederick valentich

662
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:18,059
now if we start our session today over

663
00:28:22,490 --> 00:28:20,159
at Wiki

664
00:28:24,529 --> 00:28:22,500
The Disappearance of Frederick valentich

665
00:28:28,010 --> 00:28:24,539
Frederick valentich was an Australian

666
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,020
pilot who disappeared while on a 125

667
00:28:33,730 --> 00:28:30,240
nautical mile training flight in the

668
00:28:37,450 --> 00:28:33,740
Cessna 182l light aircraft

669
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:37,460
registration Victor Hotel

670
00:28:44,529 --> 00:28:40,559
Delta Sierra Juliet

671
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:44,539
and this occurred over bass straight

672
00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:48,240
on Saturday the 21st of October 1978

673
00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:49,919
best rate is the body of water

674
00:28:55,970 --> 00:28:52,140
separating the Australian mainland from

675
00:28:58,730 --> 00:28:55,980
the state of Tasmania

676
00:29:01,010 --> 00:28:58,740
the report here says described as a

677
00:29:03,169 --> 00:29:01,020
flying saucer Enthusiast 20 year old

678
00:29:06,169 --> 00:29:03,179
volintage informed Melbourne air traffic

679
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,179
control that he was being accompanied by

680
00:29:11,890 --> 00:29:08,640
an aircraft at about one thousand feet

681
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:11,900
above him and that his engine began

682
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:15,679
roughly idling or roughly running

683
00:29:21,529 --> 00:29:18,960
before finally reporting it's not an

684
00:29:23,330 --> 00:29:21,539
aircraft there were belated reports of a

685
00:29:25,310 --> 00:29:23,340
UFO sighting in Australia on the night

686
00:29:26,930 --> 00:29:25,320
of The Disappearance however the

687
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,940
Associated Press reported that the

688
00:29:31,250 --> 00:29:28,799
Department of Transport was skeptical

689
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:31,260
the UFO was behind volintage

690
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:35,039
disappearance and that some of their

691
00:29:40,250 --> 00:29:37,039
officials speculated that quote

692
00:29:41,870 --> 00:29:40,260
volintage became disoriented and saw his

693
00:29:44,450 --> 00:29:41,880
own lights reflected in the water all

694
00:29:46,130 --> 00:29:44,460
lights from a nearby Island while flying

695
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:46,140
upside down end quote

696
00:29:52,250 --> 00:29:49,440
and at the time of recording The

697
00:29:54,830 --> 00:29:52,260
Disappearance occurred 43 years 11

698
00:29:57,769 --> 00:29:54,840
months and 17 days ago

699
00:30:00,289 --> 00:29:57,779
which means that if Frederick valencis

700
00:30:02,210 --> 00:30:00,299
was still alive today he'd be in his

701
00:30:04,130 --> 00:30:02,220
early 60s

702
00:30:07,549 --> 00:30:04,140
it's widely

703
00:30:09,769 --> 00:30:07,559
suppose that the unfortunate valentich

704
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:09,779
died

705
00:30:14,210 --> 00:30:11,760
after his plane crashed on that night

706
00:30:16,490 --> 00:30:14,220
way back in 1978.

707
00:30:18,289 --> 00:30:16,500
however it's the radio communication

708
00:30:21,230 --> 00:30:18,299
volantage had with air traffic control

709
00:30:24,350 --> 00:30:21,240
which raised speculation at the time of

710
00:30:28,549 --> 00:30:24,360
alien spacecraft and this was

711
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:28,559
uh largely due in my opinion to the era

712
00:30:33,769 --> 00:30:32,640
1978 was in the middle of a UFO hype UFO

713
00:30:35,810 --> 00:30:33,779
craze

714
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:35,820
sparked largely by the movie Close

715
00:30:40,370 --> 00:30:38,159
Encounters of the Third Kind but the

716
00:30:42,529 --> 00:30:40,380
1970s were full of all sorts of reports

717
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:42,539
of paranormal things from spoon bending

718
00:30:48,490 --> 00:30:44,940
to Ouija boards to um

719
00:30:52,370 --> 00:30:48,500
ghosts to whatever but especially UFOs

720
00:30:55,370 --> 00:30:52,380
various proposals have been put forward

721
00:30:58,130 --> 00:30:55,380
James mcgah and Joe Nichol writing for

722
00:30:59,870 --> 00:30:58,140
skeptical Inquirer in December 2013 have

723
00:31:01,630 --> 00:30:59,880
published a report which I'll link to in

724
00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:01,640
the show notes

725
00:31:06,310 --> 00:31:04,080
which concludes

726
00:31:09,049 --> 00:31:06,320
that in all probability

727
00:31:12,649 --> 00:31:09,059
valentage confused

728
00:31:15,169 --> 00:31:12,659
um planets and stars for an aircraft in

729
00:31:16,970 --> 00:31:15,179
his disorientated state

730
00:31:19,370 --> 00:31:16,980
and the report they've written which

731
00:31:21,289 --> 00:31:19,380
I'll link to goes on to say that the

732
00:31:23,389 --> 00:31:21,299
various stars and planets were in the

733
00:31:26,510 --> 00:31:23,399
correct formation at the time

734
00:31:29,570 --> 00:31:26,520
that could have confused him

735
00:31:32,570 --> 00:31:29,580
and given that he was a UFO Enthusiast

736
00:31:35,690 --> 00:31:32,580
he might have leapt to the conclusion

737
00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:35,700
that it was a um an aircraft or a UFO

738
00:31:41,149 --> 00:31:38,820
following him or hovering about him

739
00:31:42,350 --> 00:31:41,159
and I find the conclusion here not

740
00:31:44,990 --> 00:31:42,360
unreasonable

741
00:31:46,909 --> 00:31:45,000
Brian Dunning in his skeptoid episode of

742
00:31:47,930 --> 00:31:46,919
some years ago concluded that valentich

743
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:47,940
was um

744
00:31:54,110 --> 00:31:51,840
Carried Away by his interest in UFOs and

745
00:31:56,510 --> 00:31:54,120
was repeating some of the lines he could

746
00:31:58,789 --> 00:31:56,520
have heard in the movie Close Encounters

747
00:32:01,730 --> 00:31:58,799
of the Third Kind in any situation

748
00:32:02,930 --> 00:32:01,740
wreckage sometime later some years later

749
00:32:05,450 --> 00:32:02,940
was found

750
00:32:07,850 --> 00:32:05,460
on an island in Bass Strait consistent

751
00:32:10,610 --> 00:32:07,860
with the aircraft so it's widely

752
00:32:13,549 --> 00:32:10,620
suspected he went into a spiral crashed

753
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:13,559
into the ocean and sadly most of the

754
00:32:17,870 --> 00:32:16,559
aircraft and valentidge himself have

755
00:32:20,690 --> 00:32:17,880
been lost

756
00:32:24,289 --> 00:32:20,700
now here on the page

757
00:32:26,210 --> 00:32:24,299
from the skeptical Inquirer is a

758
00:32:28,430 --> 00:32:26,220
transcript of the radio communication

759
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:28,440
between valentich and the air traffic

760
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:30,720
control and reading it

761
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:33,360
and given the time you know UFOs were

762
00:32:37,610 --> 00:32:34,559
very popular

763
00:32:39,289 --> 00:32:37,620
one can easily see how people could leap

764
00:32:42,110 --> 00:32:39,299
to the conclusion that it was an alien

765
00:32:44,990 --> 00:32:42,120
spacecraft but let's look at some of the

766
00:32:46,669 --> 00:32:45,000
newspaper reports about the incident at

767
00:32:48,590 --> 00:32:46,679
the time

768
00:32:50,810 --> 00:32:48,600
and our first report comes from the

769
00:32:54,289 --> 00:32:50,820
Canberra times dated Monday the 23rd of

770
00:32:55,730 --> 00:32:54,299
October 1978 only a few days after the

771
00:32:57,529 --> 00:32:55,740
disappearance

772
00:33:00,649 --> 00:32:57,539
and it might interest you to know that

773
00:33:04,190 --> 00:33:00,659
the Canberra times cost the princely sum

774
00:33:06,350 --> 00:33:04,200
of 13 cents or 14 cents if you were in

775
00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:06,360
Sydney and Melbourne Missing pilot

776
00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:10,020
reported UFO quote playing with Cessna

777
00:33:14,269 --> 00:33:11,460
end quote

778
00:33:17,630 --> 00:33:14,279
Melbourne a pilot missing in bastrate

779
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:17,640
reported being buzzed by an unidentified

780
00:33:21,889 --> 00:33:19,679
flying object for a quarter of an hour

781
00:33:24,289 --> 00:33:21,899
before losing radio contact with

782
00:33:26,330 --> 00:33:24,299
Melbourne air traffic controllers a

783
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:26,340
Department of Transport spokesman said

784
00:33:29,870 --> 00:33:27,600
yesterday

785
00:33:32,690 --> 00:33:29,880
the Department's Public Relation officer

786
00:33:35,149 --> 00:33:32,700
Mr Ken Williams said the pilot radioed

787
00:33:38,090 --> 00:33:35,159
air traffic controllers at 7pm on

788
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:38,100
Saturday and reported an aircraft flying

789
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:42,000
below him at about 4 500 feet Mr

790
00:33:46,430 --> 00:33:44,159
Williams said the controllers told the

791
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:46,440
pilot there was no other aircraft in the

792
00:33:50,990 --> 00:33:48,720
area the pilot then asked control to

793
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:51,000
check if it could be an Air Force

794
00:33:55,250 --> 00:33:53,279
aircraft considering the speed it was

795
00:33:57,230 --> 00:33:55,260
traveling the controllers reported no

796
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:57,240
other aircraft including Air Force

797
00:34:02,210 --> 00:33:59,760
aircraft in the area the pilot then told

798
00:34:04,490 --> 00:34:02,220
controllers the object was long and

799
00:34:06,830 --> 00:34:04,500
metallic with four bright lights on top

800
00:34:08,990 --> 00:34:06,840
and appeared to be playing with the

801
00:34:11,570 --> 00:34:09,000
Cessna the Pilot's last communication

802
00:34:13,849 --> 00:34:11,580
with ground control was that he was

803
00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:13,859
having trouble with one engine after the

804
00:34:18,530 --> 00:34:15,960
object had hovered above him for some

805
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:18,540
time but he was heading towards King

806
00:34:24,169 --> 00:34:21,359
Island the department believed it was

807
00:34:26,750 --> 00:34:24,179
possible the pilot was disoriented and

808
00:34:28,430 --> 00:34:26,760
was flying his aircraft upside down

809
00:34:30,829 --> 00:34:28,440
during the conversation station with

810
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:30,839
ground control it was possible the pilot

811
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:33,119
was seeing the lights of Cape

812
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:36,240
Otway Lighthouse and that of King Island

813
00:34:41,869 --> 00:34:38,879
as he was flying inverted in the early

814
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:41,879
evening however the department had not

815
00:34:46,430 --> 00:34:44,399
discounted the possibility of an

816
00:34:48,589 --> 00:34:46,440
unidentified flying object although

817
00:34:50,990 --> 00:34:48,599
there had been no other reports of

818
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:51,000
anything unusual in the area

819
00:34:57,530 --> 00:34:53,760
an RAF which is a royal Australian Air

820
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,540
Force Orion Serge aircraft spotted an

821
00:35:02,990 --> 00:34:59,760
oil slick in the area the light aircraft

822
00:35:04,910 --> 00:35:03,000
is believed to have gone down the search

823
00:35:07,550 --> 00:35:04,920
would resume at first light in the area

824
00:35:11,150 --> 00:35:07,560
of the Slick where the Orion dropped a

825
00:35:13,490 --> 00:35:11,160
marker boy or buoy The Missing pilot is

826
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:13,500
Mr Frederick valentich of Avondale

827
00:35:19,370 --> 00:35:17,280
Heights Melbourne sequence of events and

828
00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:19,380
radio exchanges with air traffic

829
00:35:23,569 --> 00:35:22,140
controllers on page three so we'll turn

830
00:35:26,569 --> 00:35:23,579
to page three

831
00:35:28,849 --> 00:35:26,579
Pilots UFO report

832
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:28,859
the following is a sequence of events

833
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:31,200
and exchanges between the Missing pilot

834
00:35:37,849 --> 00:35:35,040
and the air traffic controllers at 7 pm

835
00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:37,859
on Saturday the aircraft reported over

836
00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:41,040
Kate Otway that he was proceeding to

837
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:44,220
King Island at 706 PM the pilot asked

838
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:47,520
Melbourne Air flight service if there

839
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:49,680
was any known traffic in the area below

840
00:35:55,970 --> 00:35:53,280
5 000 feet flight service replied no

841
00:35:58,370 --> 00:35:55,980
known traffic in your area the pilot

842
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:58,380
then called up and said there seemed to

843
00:36:03,710 --> 00:36:01,200
be a large aircraft below 5000 feet

844
00:36:07,730 --> 00:36:03,720
flight service requested the type of

845
00:36:10,670 --> 00:36:07,740
aircraft and the pilot replied I cannot

846
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:10,680
confirm it has four bright lights that

847
00:36:16,730 --> 00:36:13,680
appear to be landing lights the aircraft

848
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:16,740
has passed over me about one thousand

849
00:36:22,370 --> 00:36:18,240
feet above

850
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:22,380
flight service then queried him is it a

851
00:36:28,370 --> 00:36:24,839
large aircraft the pilot responded in

852
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:28,380
the affirmative and at the speed it's

853
00:36:32,930 --> 00:36:31,680
traveling are there any RAF aircraft in

854
00:36:35,150 --> 00:36:32,940
the vicinity

855
00:36:37,849 --> 00:36:35,160
flight service said no

856
00:36:40,490 --> 00:36:37,859
at 708 PM the pilot again called up and

857
00:36:43,730 --> 00:36:40,500
said it's approaching from Dewey's

858
00:36:46,490 --> 00:36:43,740
towards me it seems to me to be playing

859
00:36:50,030 --> 00:36:46,500
some sort of game it's flying at a speed

860
00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:50,040
I cannot estimate flight service queried

861
00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:52,880
his altitude and the pilot replied

862
00:36:59,150 --> 00:36:56,160
4500 feet flight service then asked him

863
00:37:02,030 --> 00:36:59,160
can you confirm you can't identify the

864
00:37:05,150 --> 00:37:02,040
aircraft the pilot replied affirmative

865
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:05,160
at 709 PM the pilot called up again and

866
00:37:10,130 --> 00:37:08,400
said it's not an aircraft it's

867
00:37:11,329 --> 00:37:10,140
and there was a temporary break in

868
00:37:14,210 --> 00:37:11,339
transmission

869
00:37:16,430 --> 00:37:14,220
flight service again called and said can

870
00:37:20,270 --> 00:37:16,440
you describe the aircraft the pilot

871
00:37:23,150 --> 00:37:20,280
replied it is flying past it is a long

872
00:37:26,930 --> 00:37:23,160
shape I cannot identify more than that

873
00:37:29,390 --> 00:37:26,940
it's coming for me right now at 7 10 pm

874
00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:29,400
flight service asked him how large it

875
00:37:35,450 --> 00:37:32,400
was and the pilot replied it seems to be

876
00:37:38,569 --> 00:37:35,460
stationary I'm orbiting and the thing is

877
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:38,579
orbiting on top of me also it has a

878
00:37:42,829 --> 00:37:40,800
green light and sort of metallic light

879
00:37:45,410 --> 00:37:42,839
on the outside

880
00:37:47,450 --> 00:37:45,420
a few seconds later the pilot told

881
00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:47,460
flight service that the object had

882
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:48,540
vanished

883
00:37:52,670 --> 00:37:50,640
flight service then asked him to confirm

884
00:37:55,910 --> 00:37:52,680
that the object had vanished the pilot

885
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:55,920
confirmed and then asked do you know

886
00:38:01,609 --> 00:37:58,320
what type of aircraft I've got is it

887
00:38:04,190 --> 00:38:01,619
military flight service responded no

888
00:38:06,650 --> 00:38:04,200
known military traffic in the area

889
00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:06,660
at 7 12 pm the pilot told flight service

890
00:38:11,810 --> 00:38:09,480
his engine was rough idling and was

891
00:38:14,450 --> 00:38:11,820
coughing the flight service then asked

892
00:38:16,450 --> 00:38:14,460
him his intentions the pilot replied

893
00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:16,460
that he was proceeding to King Island

894
00:38:20,569 --> 00:38:19,740
adding unknown aircraft hovering on top

895
00:38:22,730 --> 00:38:20,579
of me

896
00:38:25,550 --> 00:38:22,740
flight service then acknowledged that

897
00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:25,560
call then came a long metallic noise

898
00:38:29,690 --> 00:38:28,020
over the radio and communication with

899
00:38:33,109 --> 00:38:29,700
the aircraft was lost

900
00:38:35,089 --> 00:38:33,119
the Pilot's father Mr Guido valentich

901
00:38:38,329 --> 00:38:35,099
said he believed the Department of

902
00:38:43,370 --> 00:38:38,339
Transport was quote trying to cover up

903
00:38:48,770 --> 00:38:46,609
so you can imagine the interest that

904
00:38:51,770 --> 00:38:48,780
this story sparked at the time

905
00:38:55,130 --> 00:38:51,780
again given it was during one of the UFO

906
00:38:57,650 --> 00:38:55,140
crazes and of course there was as there

907
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:57,660
would be in any situation various

908
00:39:01,069 --> 00:38:59,280
searches conducted

909
00:39:03,109 --> 00:39:01,079
and we pick up the story a few days

910
00:39:05,390 --> 00:39:03,119
later on Wednesday the 25th of October

911
00:39:07,450 --> 00:39:05,400
again from the Canberra times

912
00:39:10,190 --> 00:39:07,460
why does search for missing aircraft

913
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:10,200
Melbourne the Department of Transport

914
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:12,480
stepped up yesterday the search for a

915
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:14,160
light aircraft which disappeared last

916
00:39:21,410 --> 00:39:17,359
Saturday night after a mysterious quote

917
00:39:24,290 --> 00:39:21,420
UFO incident and quote over Bass Strait

918
00:39:27,230 --> 00:39:24,300
four twin-engine aircraft joined a

919
00:39:31,310 --> 00:39:27,240
long-range marine version of The Nomad

920
00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:31,320
over the area from Cape shank to a point

921
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:33,900
50 kilometers east of King Island and

922
00:39:38,569 --> 00:39:36,480
across to Cape Otway the pilot of the

923
00:39:41,390 --> 00:39:38,579
aircraft Mr Frederick valentich 20

924
00:39:44,750 --> 00:39:41,400
vanished over bastrade in his blue and

925
00:39:47,569 --> 00:39:44,760
white Cessna 182 after reporting a

926
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:47,579
mystery craft hovering above him however

927
00:39:53,870 --> 00:39:51,359
his father Mr Guido valentich who still

928
00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:53,880
believes he may be alive said he thought

929
00:39:57,650 --> 00:39:55,980
it was possible his son had been taken

930
00:40:00,170 --> 00:39:57,660
by a spacecraft

931
00:40:02,210 --> 00:40:00,180
as the mystery surrounding the incident

932
00:40:04,190 --> 00:40:02,220
deepened yesterday Melbourne radio

933
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:04,200
stations and newspapers were flooded

934
00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:06,240
with calls from people reporting strange

935
00:40:13,370 --> 00:40:09,240
lights and possible UFO sightings in the

936
00:40:15,410 --> 00:40:13,380
past week the search will continue today

937
00:40:18,650 --> 00:40:15,420
and the next report is a few days later

938
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:18,660
on Sunday the 29th of October again from

939
00:40:24,410 --> 00:40:20,880
the Canberra times 1978.

940
00:40:26,270 --> 00:40:24,420
son alive says Pilot's father

941
00:40:28,849 --> 00:40:26,280
then you can imagine

942
00:40:30,829 --> 00:40:28,859
the um the pain and the torment and the

943
00:40:34,250 --> 00:40:30,839
hope and the Despair and everything that

944
00:40:37,670 --> 00:40:34,260
any family of a Missing pilot or missing

945
00:40:39,410 --> 00:40:37,680
people would go through Melbourne the

946
00:40:42,050 --> 00:40:39,420
father of Missing pilot Mr Frederick

947
00:40:45,290 --> 00:40:42,060
valentich denied yesterday that his son

948
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:45,300
had staged his disappearance I think he

949
00:40:50,530 --> 00:40:48,480
is still alive Mr Guido Valencia said as

950
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:50,540
a Department of Transport Aircraft

951
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:53,520
resumed the search for Mr Frederick

952
00:40:59,150 --> 00:40:56,160
valentich 20 who went missing in a light

953
00:41:01,910 --> 00:40:59,160
aircraft on a flight to King Island off

954
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:01,920
the Victorian Coastal a week ago

955
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:04,560
Mr valentich said he believed his son

956
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:07,920
had been taken by an unidentified flying

957
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:11,040
object when asked where his son might be

958
00:41:16,910 --> 00:41:14,400
Mr valentich replied your guess is as

959
00:41:19,190 --> 00:41:16,920
good as mine all I am worried about is

960
00:41:22,370 --> 00:41:19,200
that he was released in a different area

961
00:41:24,829 --> 00:41:22,380
very far away from where he was taken Mr

962
00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:24,839
valentich took a week off from work to

963
00:41:30,050 --> 00:41:27,599
keep a vigil by his telephone to awake

964
00:41:32,930 --> 00:41:30,060
news of his son who worked for the air

965
00:41:35,089 --> 00:41:32,940
training Corps on a voluntary basis and

966
00:41:37,849 --> 00:41:35,099
spent a lot of time preparing for his

967
00:41:40,849 --> 00:41:37,859
commercial pilot's license Mr Valencia

968
00:41:43,250 --> 00:41:40,859
said a Rosanna man contacted him on

969
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:43,260
Friday to say that he had cited the same

970
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:47,520
UFO as his son Mr Valencia said he had

971
00:41:54,050 --> 00:41:50,160
arranged to meet the man 58 and

972
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,060
engineering firm worker on Tuesday

973
00:41:58,970 --> 00:41:56,400
a twin engine aerial Commander aircraft

974
00:42:01,390 --> 00:41:58,980
from moorabbin airport made sweeps of

975
00:42:05,150 --> 00:42:01,400
Victoria's southwest coast between

976
00:42:06,829 --> 00:42:05,160
Torquay and petersborough yesterday

977
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:06,839
a spokesman for the Department of

978
00:42:12,349 --> 00:42:09,359
Transport said they are looking to see

979
00:42:14,030 --> 00:42:12,359
if anything has been washed ashore if

980
00:42:16,130 --> 00:42:14,040
anything is found which can be

981
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:16,140
positively identified as coming from the

982
00:42:21,710 --> 00:42:19,200
plane the search will be reactivated it

983
00:42:24,109 --> 00:42:21,720
was announced on Friday that tests on

984
00:42:25,730 --> 00:42:24,119
oil found in bastrate in the area Mr

985
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:25,740
valentidge is believed to have

986
00:42:31,550 --> 00:42:29,760
disappeared showed it was marine oil and

987
00:42:33,710 --> 00:42:31,560
not from an aircraft

988
00:42:36,770 --> 00:42:33,720
now you can imagine there are many more

989
00:42:39,050 --> 00:42:36,780
reports in various newspapers about this

990
00:42:40,430 --> 00:42:39,060
story again well it was a missing

991
00:42:43,790 --> 00:42:40,440
aircraft and that would normally make

992
00:42:45,170 --> 00:42:43,800
the news but coupled with possible UFO

993
00:42:48,410 --> 00:42:45,180
connections

994
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:48,420
but sadly we find another report here

995
00:42:54,410 --> 00:42:51,599
and it's from the Australian Associated

996
00:42:57,109 --> 00:42:54,420
Press as reported in the pages of the

997
00:43:01,130 --> 00:42:57,119
Papua New Guinea Post Courier on the

998
00:43:04,370 --> 00:43:01,140
Friday the 27th of October 1978 called

999
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:04,380
off Melbourne Thursday the best Straight

1000
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:06,720
search for an aircraft which disappeared

1001
00:43:12,530 --> 00:43:08,880
in unusual circumstances last weekend

1002
00:43:14,809 --> 00:43:12,540
has been called off though investigators

1003
00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:14,819
still are completely baffled by the

1004
00:43:21,890 --> 00:43:18,800
tragedy the plane a Cessna 182

1005
00:43:23,870 --> 00:43:21,900
disappeared last Saturday night while on

1006
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:23,880
a night flight to King Island off the

1007
00:43:28,430 --> 00:43:26,400
Victorian Coast the pilot Frederick

1008
00:43:31,490 --> 00:43:28,440
valentich reported a strange craft

1009
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:31,500
hovering above him shortly before radio

1010
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:34,400
contact was lost

1011
00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:35,520
[Music]

1012
00:43:38,290 --> 00:43:36,910
yeah

1013
00:43:41,809 --> 00:43:38,300
[Music]

1014
00:43:44,650 --> 00:43:41,819
Frederick valentich who disappeared all

1015
00:43:48,290 --> 00:43:44,660
the way back in 1978

1016
00:43:51,410 --> 00:43:48,300
and it appears most likely that he did

1017
00:43:53,450 --> 00:43:51,420
become disoriented and possibly was

1018
00:43:57,230 --> 00:43:53,460
flying upside down mistook lights for

1019
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:57,240
something else but sadly ultimately it

1020
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:05,130
much

1021
00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:06,970
[Music]

1022
00:44:11,329 --> 00:44:09,780
but of course you can find out about all

1023
00:44:13,250 --> 00:44:11,339
sorts of UFO Mysteries and other

1024
00:44:15,490 --> 00:44:13,260
Mysteries and things like that by

1025
00:44:18,349 --> 00:44:15,500
looking in the pages at Trove at

1026
00:44:23,780 --> 00:44:18,359
trove.nla.gov dot a u because we never

1027
00:44:34,380 --> 00:44:33,109
[Music]

1028
00:44:35,829 --> 00:44:34,390
thank you

1029
00:44:38,809 --> 00:44:35,839
[Music]

1030
00:44:42,589 --> 00:44:38,819
the Australian Skeptics annual National

1031
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:42,599
Convention skepticon 2022 will be held

1032
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:44,880
on December 3rd through 4th the first

1033
00:44:50,270 --> 00:44:46,800
weekend of December go to the ticket

1034
00:44:53,329 --> 00:44:50,280
sales page at skepticon.org dot a u to

1035
00:44:55,770 --> 00:44:53,339
choose full in person one day in person

1036
00:44:57,490 --> 00:44:55,780
or streaming options

1037
00:45:00,050 --> 00:44:57,500
[Music]

1038
00:45:02,510 --> 00:45:00,060
the event will be held at the National

1039
00:45:05,390 --> 00:45:02,520
Library of Australia the theme is

1040
00:45:07,250 --> 00:45:05,400
skepticism in a changed world and the

1041
00:45:09,770 --> 00:45:07,260
lineup of speakers includes Claire

1042
00:45:12,170 --> 00:45:09,780
klingenberg president of the European

1043
00:45:15,170 --> 00:45:12,180
Council of skeptical organizations the

1044
00:45:17,390 --> 00:45:15,180
hosts of European Skeptics podcast and

1045
00:45:20,089 --> 00:45:17,400
live stream Talks by Skeptics Guide to

1046
00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:20,099
the universe host Dr Steven Novella and

1047
00:45:26,109 --> 00:45:22,390
skeptoid host Brian Dunning

1048
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:28,970
there is also a wide variety of domestic

1049
00:45:33,710 --> 00:45:31,200
speakers including Major General Mike

1050
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:33,720
Ryan retired who will be speaking on

1051
00:45:38,270 --> 00:45:35,280
science fiction and Security

1052
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:38,280
Professionals author David dufte on

1053
00:45:43,250 --> 00:45:41,280
radio girl act Academy of sports

1054
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:43,260
psychologist Christine Dunn on

1055
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:45,839
superstitions in sport controversial

1056
00:45:51,410 --> 00:45:48,480
author Clive Hamilton on being censored

1057
00:45:54,730 --> 00:45:51,420
and many more scientific and skeptical

1058
00:45:57,060 --> 00:45:54,740
topics for full details visit

1059
00:46:14,530 --> 00:45:57,070
skepticon.org dot a u

1060
00:46:17,450 --> 00:46:14,540
[Music]

1061
00:46:19,370 --> 00:46:17,460
well folks science communication is

1062
00:46:21,710 --> 00:46:19,380
really important it's been important for

1063
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:21,720
me for a over 20 years communicating

1064
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:23,760
science ideas to the general public when

1065
00:46:27,890 --> 00:46:25,740
it comes to skepticism but what about

1066
00:46:30,530 --> 00:46:27,900
science ideas

1067
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,540
generally in the broader sense joining

1068
00:46:33,530 --> 00:46:32,160
me on the line from Canberra we have two

1069
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:33,540
people very interested in science

1070
00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:37,200
communication we have Joanna button Jay

1071
00:46:44,089 --> 00:46:40,560
and Tom Carruthers from the Australian

1072
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:44,099
science communicators hello hello g'day

1073
00:46:47,870 --> 00:46:46,079
how are you I'm very well it's good to

1074
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:47,880
see you because we're seeing each other

1075
00:46:52,849 --> 00:46:50,160
as people do these days over the uh the

1076
00:46:55,010 --> 00:46:52,859
magic of the interwebs and uh I've been

1077
00:46:58,190 --> 00:46:55,020
put in touch with you by our mutual

1078
00:46:59,750 --> 00:46:58,200
friend Kevin Davies in Canberra who is

1079
00:47:02,450 --> 00:46:59,760
running the Australian Skeptics National

1080
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:02,460
Convention to have a chat about science

1081
00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:04,560
communication now it says here quoting

1082
00:47:08,329 --> 00:47:06,540
from the website the science Kim these

1083
00:47:10,190 --> 00:47:08,339
Australian science communicators this is

1084
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:10,200
the peak body for science communicators

1085
00:47:15,950 --> 00:47:12,720
and science journalists in Australia

1086
00:47:17,930 --> 00:47:15,960
established in 1994. the Australian

1087
00:47:21,530 --> 00:47:17,940
science communicators has grown into a

1088
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:21,540
national network of more than 1 650

1089
00:47:26,270 --> 00:47:24,480
subscribers and 450 Financial members

1090
00:47:30,170 --> 00:47:26,280
working in science and technology

1091
00:47:32,690 --> 00:47:30,180
communication and goes on uh

1092
00:47:34,430 --> 00:47:32,700
tell me what's it all about why is it so

1093
00:47:36,170 --> 00:47:34,440
important that science scientists

1094
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:36,180
communicate and why do they need Network

1095
00:47:40,430 --> 00:47:38,160
like this so it's actually really really

1096
00:47:42,230 --> 00:47:40,440
interesting there are different fields

1097
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:42,240
of what people call themselves a science

1098
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:44,400
communicator and individuals who also

1099
00:47:48,829 --> 00:47:45,599
don't call themselves a science

1100
00:47:50,270 --> 00:47:48,839
Communicator so we've got people who

1101
00:47:53,870 --> 00:47:50,280
Define themselves as a science

1102
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:53,880
Communicator who are engaging and

1103
00:47:57,050 --> 00:47:56,160
increasing awareness and appreciation of

1104
00:47:58,970 --> 00:47:57,060
science

1105
00:48:00,650 --> 00:47:58,980
and these individuals it's nice to have

1106
00:48:02,510 --> 00:48:00,660
a community to come together and share

1107
00:48:04,370 --> 00:48:02,520
ideas and that's what the Australian

1108
00:48:07,069 --> 00:48:04,380
science communicators may do for this

1109
00:48:08,809 --> 00:48:07,079
cohort of individuals but then there are

1110
00:48:10,849 --> 00:48:08,819
other cohorts of individuals like

1111
00:48:12,109 --> 00:48:10,859
scientists who feel as though they want

1112
00:48:15,349 --> 00:48:12,119
to communicate their science better

1113
00:48:18,609 --> 00:48:15,359
whether that be to their friends to

1114
00:48:20,809 --> 00:48:18,619
their Grant proposals or to the media

1115
00:48:22,609 --> 00:48:20,819
whoever it is they want to be able to

1116
00:48:24,890 --> 00:48:22,619
communicate their science in a way that

1117
00:48:27,230 --> 00:48:24,900
is approachable friendly and suitable

1118
00:48:29,690 --> 00:48:27,240
for the circumstances and having an

1119
00:48:32,569 --> 00:48:29,700
environment where they're able to work

1120
00:48:34,609 --> 00:48:32,579
off each other is really really valuable

1121
00:48:35,870 --> 00:48:34,619
and share knowledge and I think that's

1122
00:48:37,970 --> 00:48:35,880
what the Australian science

1123
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:37,980
communicators does is it brings together

1124
00:48:42,650 --> 00:48:41,040
these communities and allows people to

1125
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:42,660
share knowledge

1126
00:48:48,589 --> 00:48:45,839
and also thoroughly there are people who

1127
00:48:51,170 --> 00:48:48,599
specifically research how science

1128
00:48:52,430 --> 00:48:51,180
communication is effective or ways that

1129
00:48:54,670 --> 00:48:52,440
we might be able to do science

1130
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:54,680
communication more effectively in future

1131
00:49:01,609 --> 00:48:58,400
and exactly as Joanna was just saying

1132
00:49:03,530 --> 00:49:01,619
those researchers are able to share

1133
00:49:05,809 --> 00:49:03,540
their findings with the people who then

1134
00:49:07,849 --> 00:49:05,819
make use of that research in their

1135
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:07,859
practice when they're doing media

1136
00:49:13,970 --> 00:49:11,040
interviews when they're talking to their

1137
00:49:16,250 --> 00:49:13,980
boss about why we should be including

1138
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:16,260
science into the way that we're talking

1139
00:49:20,089 --> 00:49:17,760
about our risk analysis for the future

1140
00:49:22,010 --> 00:49:20,099
or whatever it might be that's very

1141
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,020
interesting because it's it's been one

1142
00:49:26,690 --> 00:49:24,240
of the um fascinating things we've had

1143
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:26,700
to deal with in the skeptical Community

1144
00:49:31,370 --> 00:49:29,520
for well since dot is trying to

1145
00:49:34,130 --> 00:49:31,380
communicate to the broader public what

1146
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:34,140
we're all about because invariably

1147
00:49:40,130 --> 00:49:37,680
people get the wrong idea and they think

1148
00:49:42,589 --> 00:49:40,140
we're we're no better than blind

1149
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:42,599
Believers not believing in things so

1150
00:49:47,930 --> 00:49:44,880
science communication from our point of

1151
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:47,940
view has always been this uh very tricky

1152
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:50,640
topic and let me go on a funny tangent

1153
00:49:56,210 --> 00:49:53,520
here so one of the things that that we

1154
00:49:58,130 --> 00:49:56,220
we you know communicate to the public

1155
00:49:59,690 --> 00:49:58,140
because people say

1156
00:50:01,609 --> 00:49:59,700
um they think they're a Bigfoot well

1157
00:50:03,950 --> 00:50:01,619
they think the Loch Ness Monster is is

1158
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:03,960
there and they don't want to hear from

1159
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:05,520
us because all they think that we're

1160
00:50:10,250 --> 00:50:07,680
going to say is no it's not there it's

1161
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:10,260
silly it's just a you know a fantasy and

1162
00:50:14,690 --> 00:50:13,200
people who believe it are crazy whereas

1163
00:50:16,970 --> 00:50:14,700
what I'd like to do is I'd like to

1164
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:16,980
approach it from a um biological point

1165
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:19,920
of view if a creature like a Yowie or a

1166
00:50:25,010 --> 00:50:21,839
Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster exists

1167
00:50:26,750 --> 00:50:25,020
it must be integrated into its

1168
00:50:29,569 --> 00:50:26,760
environment it must be part of the

1169
00:50:32,210 --> 00:50:29,579
ecosystem and that's how I've overcome

1170
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:32,220
that and people say oh yeah isn't that

1171
00:50:36,829 --> 00:50:34,079
interesting I said well has to it has to

1172
00:50:38,990 --> 00:50:36,839
eat what does it eat it has to have a

1173
00:50:41,150 --> 00:50:39,000
breeding population a gene pool a

1174
00:50:43,550 --> 00:50:41,160
genetic pool so that's one way I've

1175
00:50:45,770 --> 00:50:43,560
overcome the problem we have

1176
00:50:48,109 --> 00:50:45,780
and I find and maybe you find this too

1177
00:50:49,970 --> 00:50:48,119
if you engage people's interest and

1178
00:50:52,849 --> 00:50:49,980
suddenly their brain starts to fire off

1179
00:50:56,089 --> 00:50:52,859
with interest and curiosity maybe that's

1180
00:51:00,170 --> 00:50:56,099
a very uh beneficial Avenue

1181
00:51:02,270 --> 00:51:00,180
yeah and I mean like asking people well

1182
00:51:04,910 --> 00:51:02,280
um questioning their logic can be very

1183
00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:04,920
confronting asking people well saying

1184
00:51:09,530 --> 00:51:07,260
you know these are the statistics this

1185
00:51:10,910 --> 00:51:09,540
is the science behind it listen to the

1186
00:51:13,549 --> 00:51:10,920
science

1187
00:51:14,809 --> 00:51:13,559
um people get quite you know taken aback

1188
00:51:16,370 --> 00:51:14,819
by that they're like but I did do

1189
00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:16,380
research I looked at the first Google

1190
00:51:20,690 --> 00:51:19,020
result that came up

1191
00:51:22,370 --> 00:51:20,700
um and you know there was a journal

1192
00:51:24,049 --> 00:51:22,380
article on it just just one but there

1193
00:51:25,730 --> 00:51:24,059
was a journal article on it so therefore

1194
00:51:27,349 --> 00:51:25,740
it's truth

1195
00:51:28,490 --> 00:51:27,359
um and so I think a challenge that we

1196
00:51:31,010 --> 00:51:28,500
find in the world of science

1197
00:51:33,290 --> 00:51:31,020
communicating is how do we tackle that

1198
00:51:35,569 --> 00:51:33,300
appropriately respecting that they've

1199
00:51:37,549 --> 00:51:35,579
got different opinions but also say

1200
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:37,559
maybe we need to think about this a

1201
00:51:41,930 --> 00:51:39,119
little bit differently

1202
00:51:43,130 --> 00:51:41,940
um and you know uh when we talk about

1203
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:43,140
um people who don't believe in

1204
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:45,599
vaccinations for example there's a lot

1205
00:51:49,130 --> 00:51:47,040
of emotional language that happens

1206
00:51:51,470 --> 00:51:49,140
around that oh yes

1207
00:51:54,410 --> 00:51:51,480
um and so a lot of science communicators

1208
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:54,420
are trying to find ways to be able to

1209
00:52:00,490 --> 00:51:56,640
use emotional language to their benefit

1210
00:52:04,490 --> 00:52:00,500
when we're so used to using you know

1211
00:52:06,290 --> 00:52:04,500
facts yes to support our arguments and I

1212
00:52:08,030 --> 00:52:06,300
think that's a really like valuable use

1213
00:52:09,530 --> 00:52:08,040
of science communication and being able

1214
00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:09,540
to share that knowledge together to say

1215
00:52:15,230 --> 00:52:12,359
well I've tried this tactic this works

1216
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:15,240
on these types of challenges but they're

1217
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:16,559
not going to work for all the challenges

1218
00:52:20,510 --> 00:52:17,760
and I think

1219
00:52:21,650 --> 00:52:20,520
uh that's that's a fun part of being

1220
00:52:23,630 --> 00:52:21,660
able to

1221
00:52:26,510 --> 00:52:23,640
you know try to work it together to be

1222
00:52:28,010 --> 00:52:26,520
like okay how are we going to for lack

1223
00:52:30,410 --> 00:52:28,020
of a better word convince someone else

1224
00:52:34,430 --> 00:52:30,420
to think the same way that we think yeah

1225
00:52:36,170 --> 00:52:34,440
and is it necessary or possible that's

1226
00:52:38,750 --> 00:52:36,180
very interesting and Tom I suppose you

1227
00:52:41,870 --> 00:52:38,760
get scientists from just about every

1228
00:52:43,730 --> 00:52:41,880
field of science there is in the in the

1229
00:52:46,309 --> 00:52:43,740
science communicators

1230
00:52:48,290 --> 00:52:46,319
yeah thoroughly I mean and and it goes

1231
00:52:52,130 --> 00:52:48,300
It goes a bit broader than what we would

1232
00:52:54,170 --> 00:52:52,140
typically put in uh in the definition of

1233
00:52:56,210 --> 00:52:54,180
science itself science technology

1234
00:52:57,770 --> 00:52:56,220
engineering mathematics sometimes

1235
00:53:02,170 --> 00:52:57,780
psychology

1236
00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:02,180
um pretty much the the the breadth of of

1237
00:53:06,230 --> 00:53:04,800
research-based uh Communications you

1238
00:53:09,470 --> 00:53:06,240
could even broaden out some of the

1239
00:53:10,910 --> 00:53:09,480
members of the ASC are involved in

1240
00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:10,920
actually helping with the communication

1241
00:53:15,950 --> 00:53:14,640
of the evidence base so to speak

1242
00:53:17,450 --> 00:53:15,960
um and I think this is this goes back to

1243
00:53:20,329 --> 00:53:17,460
your earlier Point around trying to

1244
00:53:22,430 --> 00:53:20,339
Define what size communication is or or

1245
00:53:23,390 --> 00:53:22,440
the the bounds or the the boundary of

1246
00:53:25,490 --> 00:53:23,400
where we're going to talk about

1247
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:25,500
skepticism for instance yeah

1248
00:53:34,130 --> 00:53:29,520
um uh science is a very very broad term

1249
00:53:36,349 --> 00:53:34,140
in and of itself and so we do have we do

1250
00:53:38,569 --> 00:53:36,359
have a range of people from a range of

1251
00:53:41,870 --> 00:53:38,579
different experiences and expertise who

1252
00:53:45,530 --> 00:53:41,880
engage in the communication of of those

1253
00:53:47,210 --> 00:53:45,540
um those fields to to play a role in

1254
00:53:49,309 --> 00:53:47,220
terms of passing Knowledge from one

1255
00:53:51,890 --> 00:53:49,319
place to another or learnings from one

1256
00:53:53,510 --> 00:53:51,900
side to the other but also as what

1257
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:53,520
gerono was just saying and what we were

1258
00:53:58,730 --> 00:53:56,640
alluding to before that there is there's

1259
00:54:02,030 --> 00:53:58,740
an increasing

1260
00:54:03,890 --> 00:54:02,040
um uh Reliance on good science

1261
00:54:07,190 --> 00:54:03,900
Communication in relation to behavior

1262
00:54:09,470 --> 00:54:07,200
change for Public Policy use or for us

1263
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:09,480
to be able to prioritize where we want

1264
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:13,680
to spend our limited resource of uh

1265
00:54:16,730 --> 00:54:15,359
Federal funding into science research

1266
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:16,740
for instance

1267
00:54:22,130 --> 00:54:19,680
um that that that communication of the

1268
00:54:25,010 --> 00:54:22,140
value or the importance or the impact of

1269
00:54:26,750 --> 00:54:25,020
science uh quite often uh Falls to a

1270
00:54:28,370 --> 00:54:26,760
science Communicator as well and with

1271
00:54:30,109 --> 00:54:28,380
that being said you know like these

1272
00:54:32,809 --> 00:54:30,119
individuals they don't have to have a

1273
00:54:34,849 --> 00:54:32,819
science background to be able to be

1274
00:54:36,589 --> 00:54:34,859
supporting science and I think that's

1275
00:54:38,030 --> 00:54:36,599
really important is that we're using so

1276
00:54:39,950 --> 00:54:38,040
many different skills and different

1277
00:54:42,049 --> 00:54:39,960
individuals are using their different

1278
00:54:43,370 --> 00:54:42,059
life skills that they've gained over

1279
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:43,380
there you know like different

1280
00:54:48,170 --> 00:54:46,079
educational Pathways and using that

1281
00:54:50,930 --> 00:54:48,180
knowledge to help them communicate

1282
00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:50,940
science better or communicate those

1283
00:54:56,510 --> 00:54:54,000
arguments better and so you know like

1284
00:54:57,950 --> 00:54:56,520
people say to us well do I need to have

1285
00:55:00,349 --> 00:54:57,960
a science degree oh no I don't have a

1286
00:55:02,450 --> 00:55:00,359
science degree that's fine you can still

1287
00:55:05,450 --> 00:55:02,460
get the key messages across without

1288
00:55:07,010 --> 00:55:05,460
having a science degree I'm glad you

1289
00:55:08,569 --> 00:55:07,020
said that I don't happen to have a

1290
00:55:11,150 --> 00:55:08,579
science degree but I've been trying to

1291
00:55:13,790 --> 00:55:11,160
get the idea of science across now for

1292
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,800
well for decades folks if you want to

1293
00:55:16,270 --> 00:55:15,359
find out more about the Australian

1294
00:55:19,329 --> 00:55:16,280
science

1295
00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:19,339
communicators the website is

1296
00:55:28,130 --> 00:55:24,960
ASC dot a s n dot a uh but before we go

1297
00:55:30,109 --> 00:55:28,140
I happen to notice also that the both of

1298
00:55:32,270 --> 00:55:30,119
you were involved with the wonderful

1299
00:55:34,730 --> 00:55:32,280
program which is pain point of science

1300
00:55:36,290 --> 00:55:34,740
can you give me a quick overview for how

1301
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:36,300
listeners who might not have heard of

1302
00:55:40,670 --> 00:55:38,640
pint of science

1303
00:55:43,270 --> 00:55:40,680
well part of science is an International

1304
00:55:46,370 --> 00:55:43,280
Festival it started over in the UK

1305
00:55:48,890 --> 00:55:46,380
girana and I uh were the national

1306
00:55:51,890 --> 00:55:48,900
leaders for about five years in

1307
00:55:53,630 --> 00:55:51,900
Australia and we we took a slightly

1308
00:55:55,790 --> 00:55:53,640
different approach in Australia to the

1309
00:55:58,670 --> 00:55:55,800
way that other countries have engaged

1310
00:56:00,650 --> 00:55:58,680
with pint of science thoroughly engaging

1311
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:00,660
with the early and mid-career

1312
00:56:05,210 --> 00:56:03,359
researchers themselves to build up some

1313
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:05,220
of these crucial science communication

1314
00:56:10,510 --> 00:56:08,160
skills in the way that they engage in

1315
00:56:13,849 --> 00:56:10,520
running events or

1316
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:13,859
running a social media page or writing a

1317
00:56:18,049 --> 00:56:16,079
media release or even just communicating

1318
00:56:21,410 --> 00:56:18,059
their own research because if you think

1319
00:56:23,329 --> 00:56:21,420
about it let's say that I am an early

1320
00:56:25,130 --> 00:56:23,339
career researcher and I come up with

1321
00:56:29,690 --> 00:56:25,140
this amazing breakthrough that happens

1322
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:29,700
to be an mRNA vaccine all of a sudden I

1323
00:56:34,190 --> 00:56:32,400
might get a lot of media interest if my

1324
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:34,200
research becomes relevant tomorrow

1325
00:56:39,230 --> 00:56:36,000
because there might be some pandemic

1326
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:39,240
that we're trying to solve and and now I

1327
00:56:43,910 --> 00:56:41,040
have not got actually any experience

1328
00:56:47,270 --> 00:56:43,920
engaging with with the general public

1329
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:47,280
around what my research actually is the

1330
00:56:49,849 --> 00:56:48,480
only experience I've done is through

1331
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:49,859
National Science week or something like

1332
00:56:54,109 --> 00:56:51,839
that where I'm talking about fairly

1333
00:56:56,690 --> 00:56:54,119
fundamental science rather than my

1334
00:56:58,609 --> 00:56:56,700
actual research or the bleeding edge of

1335
00:57:00,410 --> 00:56:58,619
what my actual research is and so what

1336
00:57:03,650 --> 00:57:00,420
part of science did was it provided an

1337
00:57:06,890 --> 00:57:03,660
opportunity for those researchers to

1338
00:57:08,510 --> 00:57:06,900
speak about their current results to a

1339
00:57:10,370 --> 00:57:08,520
room full of people in a relaxed

1340
00:57:11,950 --> 00:57:10,380
environment over a pint of whatever you

1341
00:57:14,750 --> 00:57:11,960
wanted to put in there

1342
00:57:16,790 --> 00:57:14,760
and and we found that it was actually a

1343
00:57:19,490 --> 00:57:16,800
very effective way of breaking down some

1344
00:57:23,049 --> 00:57:19,500
of those barriers I think one of the one

1345
00:57:25,910 --> 00:57:23,059
of the most fun things to see would be

1346
00:57:27,530 --> 00:57:25,920
audience members going up and being

1347
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:27,540
shocked that the person that they just

1348
00:57:31,549 --> 00:57:30,240
ordered at the bar beside was a person

1349
00:57:33,470 --> 00:57:31,559
standing up out of the audience to give

1350
00:57:35,210 --> 00:57:33,480
the next presentation and then them

1351
00:57:37,010 --> 00:57:35,220
being able to have a chat

1352
00:57:40,250 --> 00:57:37,020
um so I think it did a wonderful thing

1353
00:57:43,190 --> 00:57:40,260
in terms of humanizing science tests and

1354
00:57:45,109 --> 00:57:43,200
sharing the the iterative approach to

1355
00:57:50,450 --> 00:57:45,119
what scientific research is yeah I think

1356
00:57:55,450 --> 00:57:53,210
a few years it was an opportunity for

1357
00:57:57,710 --> 00:57:55,460
networking as well for months at all so

1358
00:57:59,990 --> 00:57:57,720
for a good idea and it's very

1359
00:58:01,910 --> 00:58:00,000
reminiscent of what we've been doing for

1360
00:58:03,650 --> 00:58:01,920
or some years now skeptical

1361
00:58:05,630 --> 00:58:03,660
organizations around the world have been

1362
00:58:07,670 --> 00:58:05,640
having Skeptics in the pub so it's a

1363
00:58:10,190 --> 00:58:07,680
very similar idea you know very relaxed

1364
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:10,200
have a nice Pub dinner some chips and a

1365
00:58:14,809 --> 00:58:12,240
fish or a chicken and a nice glass of

1366
00:58:16,849 --> 00:58:14,819
beer or wine listen to The Talk ask

1367
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:16,859
questions and socialize all very good

1368
00:58:21,170 --> 00:58:19,440
yeah so that happens every May and so

1369
00:58:22,910 --> 00:58:21,180
people at most definitely it is

1370
00:58:25,430 --> 00:58:22,920
continuing on Toronto and I don't lead

1371
00:58:27,230 --> 00:58:25,440
that organization anymore but it is

1372
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:27,240
every single May you'll be able to find

1373
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:30,000
at pintoscience.com I'll add a link

1374
00:58:34,370 --> 00:58:31,920
folks in this week's show notes for both

1375
00:58:37,010 --> 00:58:34,380
the Australian science communicators and

1376
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:37,020
the pint of science both worthy of your

1377
00:58:40,190 --> 00:58:38,640
attention and any scientists out there

1378
00:58:42,530 --> 00:58:40,200
if you are wondering about how you

1379
00:58:44,930 --> 00:58:42,540
should communicate that's the website to

1380
00:58:47,089 --> 00:58:44,940
go to well Tom and Joanna I want to

1381
00:58:49,309 --> 00:58:47,099
thank you very much for sparing some

1382
00:58:52,970 --> 00:58:49,319
time to talk to the skeptic Zone and Tom

1383
00:58:56,210 --> 00:58:52,980
I think you will hopefully be talking at

1384
00:58:57,650 --> 00:58:56,220
skepticon 2022 in Canberra in early

1385
00:59:00,770 --> 00:58:57,660
December

1386
00:59:03,230 --> 00:59:00,780
looking forward to it all right and uh

1387
00:59:05,930 --> 00:59:03,240
and for now both of you in Canberra

1388
00:59:07,380 --> 00:59:05,940
thank you very much thank you all right

1389
00:59:24,490 --> 00:59:07,390
ciao

1390
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:27,410
thank you thank you for listening to the

1391
00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:29,520
skeptic Zone and thank you as ever to

1392
00:59:33,890 --> 00:59:30,960
those wonderful people who support the

1393
00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:33,900
skeptic Zone as you heard earlier on in

1394
00:59:37,730 --> 00:59:35,760
the show how important it is

1395
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:37,740
how important it is that people support

1396
00:59:42,670 --> 00:59:40,559
skeptical Endeavors financially Ryan

1397
00:59:46,010 --> 00:59:42,680
Dunning certainly couldn't do his movie

1398
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:46,020
without financial support by

1399
00:59:50,270 --> 00:59:48,480
friends and fans and so on and that's

1400
00:59:52,250 --> 00:59:50,280
exactly the case for the skeptic Zone

1401
00:59:55,549 --> 00:59:52,260
podcast so I do appreciate your support

1402
00:59:58,670 --> 00:59:55,559
at skeptic Zone dot TV where you can

1403
01:00:01,329 --> 00:59:58,680
sign up for PayPal or patreon

1404
01:00:03,950 --> 01:00:01,339
now keep an eye on

1405
01:00:06,109 --> 01:00:03,960
maynard.com.au I was just visiting

1406
01:00:08,030 --> 01:00:06,119
Maynard the other day and we were

1407
01:00:09,410 --> 01:00:08,040
filming a new special he's hoping to put

1408
01:00:11,410 --> 01:00:09,420
out on

1409
01:00:16,730 --> 01:00:11,420
Saturday

1410
01:00:18,109 --> 01:00:16,740
Australia and this is a special all

1411
01:00:21,770 --> 01:00:18,119
about uh

1412
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:21,780
Mary Wilson the famous British soul

1413
01:00:27,470 --> 01:00:24,960
singer but for this week this is Richard

1414
01:00:33,230 --> 01:00:27,480
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1415
01:00:39,250 --> 01:00:35,410
listening to the skip Zone podcast

1416
01:00:41,530 --> 01:00:39,260
please visit our website at

1417
01:00:44,630 --> 01:00:41,540
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

1418
01:00:48,170 --> 01:00:44,640
contacts and to access the back catalog

1419
01:00:50,089 --> 01:00:48,180
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1420
01:00:53,690 --> 01:00:50,099
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1421
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1423
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1426
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podcast is an independent production the

1427
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1428
01:01:12,410 --> 01:01:10,020
skeptic zone are not necessarily those